hello stuadh,

i don't think that florian meant you, so there is no
need to be angry. i think what he wrote is absolutely valid
and afaik exactly this happened to doepfer some years ago.
they had bad experience with selling kits, so they won't
do it anymore. a general diy page which can only be used
by experienced builders is quite "save" for doepfer.
you know, a burned child avoids the fire.

btw, i never was keen enough to build my own modules,
so you have my full respect.

best wishes

ingo

--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com , "stuadh" <stuadh@h...> wrote:
> Florian,
>
> if I were to make a mess of a project I would have no grounds to
> blame a (well written) DIY site. I don't believe that Doepfer is
> offering any warranty on modules made using their site. Apart
> from anything else, how many of us on this forum have added
> Analogue Systems, Analogue Solutions, homemade and
> goodness knows what else modules to our cases, thereby
> rendering null any warranty and therefore legal obligation on
> behalf of Doepfer (or ASys etc) for mechanical malfunction. I did
> so based on the information on the Doepfer site.
>
> "Every "idiot" will continue beeing an idiot. "
>
> Are you suggesting that by having clearly explained projects to
> try that I would never learn anything about building projects
> How then did I manage to build my Dual Attenuator - all with no
> previous experience. I haven't destroyed my synth, burned down
> the house or electrocuted myself (although I freely accept that
> Doepfer, A Sys their employees or any or their immediate family
> are not liable should such an event occur).
>
> As is happens, I'm now much neater at soldering, and I now
> understand how attenuators work, and why those componemts
> were used. It has also given me an increased interest in
> building parts of my synth. I'm currently designing a 20U case to
> build (don't worry, I'll get a qualified electrician to check it
over).
> I'm also not a trained carpenter, should I leave all the woodwork
> to the professionals, too If so, why have a DIY (Do-It-Yourself)
> page at all
>
> "He would crash his pcbs and solder his components to death,
> the idiot will blame me that his diy-project failed"
>
> and yet,
>
> "There are a lot of well described diy-project out there"
>
> ...which you suggested I should start with. Why aren't these
> diy-project sites/companies being snowed under by idiots who
> are blaming them for every failure and mistake
>
> "the idiot will blame me that his diy-project failed... he simply
> still is an idiot."
>
> ...or he will look at the clearly explained instructions which
help
> him understand why each component is chosen and placed,
> and he will realise his mistake, and LEARN.
>
> "And of course he will tell this to the world."
>
> And the world will say, "why didn't you follow the clearly
> explained instructions "
>
> Stuadh
>
> Six months ago, I knew nothing about analogue synthesis,
> having only experienc of sample-based synths and samplers.
> However, I read up on the subject, bought an A Sys Minisynth,
> and started experimenting. Should I have stayed well clear of
> analogue synthesis, too. Three years ago, I knew nothing about
> computers. So I read up, bought a 2nd hand Mac, learned how
> to work it, and I now maintain my own computer which has
> various specialised music applications on it. It is integrated
into
> my little music studio (including the my doep/A Sys hybrid). Oh,
> by the way, it has never been back to a repair shop. I've always
> managed to learn from experience.
>
>
>
>
> --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com , Florian Anwander
> <Florian.Anwander@c...> wrote:
> > Hi stuadh
> >
> > > I would appreciate if all
> > > components were shown in idiot-proof detail.
> > If I was Doepfer, I would not do that.
> >
> > The story would go that way: Every "idiot" will continue beeing
> an
> > idiot. He will do things I never thought he could do. He would
> crash his
> > pcbs and solder his components to death, the idiot will blame
> me that
> > his diy-project failed, and he wont get it fixed anyway as much
> as I
> > will help him (while the time, I should work on developping
> moduls) - he
> > simply still is an idiot. The result will be, that the idiot will
be
> > very unsatisfied and he will blame his mistake to me - not to
> his own.
> > And of course he will tell this to the world.
> >
> > So to my opinion the only way the word "idiot-proof" should be
> > understood is, that a DIY-page is proven, that idiots
> understand, that
> > they should keep their hands off.
> >
> > Ok, this is described in extreme words. In reality I should say:
> There
> > are a lot of well described diy-project out there (commercial
> and
> > non-commercial). Start with them, learn with them, and the
> time will
> > come soon, you will be able to work with the Doepfer DIY-page.
> >
> > Just my 2 cts
> >
> > Florian